From an Italian Jew
"Praise be to God that I can announce to you glad tidings which arrived here yesterday…there is no end to the confirmations of that which is reported to have happened, and they all write that time is too scarce to describe all the miracles and signs that occur all the time. I pray you to announce to the whole holy congregation that they should settle all their affairs as soon as possible. Let this hint suffice that they should cease from all trade, since there is hope that our redemption may come sooner than we expected. Four hundred families are waiting in Frankfurt, all ready for the journey, and many others of the same neighborhood have already left. I never wished to write untruths; but as I behold that from all sides they confirm the miracle, I must tell you about it. All this news arrived last night and caused such a great rejoicing that many wept for excess of joy. Immediately all copies of the roles of the comedy (Purim shpil) which they had intended to perform were torn up, since this is not a time for vanities but for the study of law and good works...Everyone must seek the welfare of his fellow man if he want to share in this blessedness. Nobody here enters any claims against anyone, but the most important thing is to restore all dishonest gain” (in Casale, Italy, 1666)
Please post your questions by 10/6 at 11:59pm. I suggest you do it after class; you'll have more familiarity with the subject and thus it's more likely you'll ask a better question. You can also revise your question up until that (11:59pm) point in time.
The author appears to be an educated person, as seen by obviously the fact that he can write, but also how well he writes, so what does the fact that someone as educated as the author believed the "miracle" he saw to be true, say about him and the time he lived in?
ReplyDeleteAmi Charnoff
The person at first glance seems like a very religions person. Is it possible that He was one of the top followers of Shabbtai Tzvi? Wanting to take away all possessions from everyone and become rich? Or was such a smart person just tricked?
ReplyDeleteThis man is pretty obviously one of the Shabbtai Tzvi followers we discussed in class, he talks about, and seems to urge, families to give up their worldly possessions, stop their business, move to Israel, cease their comedies/plays (Shpil), and prepare for the imminent Messiah. Since this man lived in 17th century Italy, was literate, and talked about business, I assume he was some sort of merchant. What was the merchant thinking, after going against every iota of business sense in his body, to tell everybody to get rid of their worldly possessions, leave their home, stop their business, and find out the Shabbtai Tzvi is a total fraud after he converted to Islam?
ReplyDeleteFrom the document one sees all the Jews are very anticipatory of the messiah coming. So much so they stop everything. They sold there land, they moved to Frankfurt, they even tore up their Purim shpeils because they realized that this is a time to be better people not make fun of people. However, what of the aftermath? How would one react? Would one slip back into their vanities?
ReplyDelete~ Noah Paul
This author appears to be one of the followers of Sabbtai Tzvi. He tell every one that they should get ready for the Messiah and sell their properties. The author states that people found out last night and "Immediately all copies of the roles of the comedy (Purim shpil) which they had intended to perform were torn up, since this is not a time for vanities but for the study of law and good works..." This quote seems to say that this happened around Purim time and the purim shpil was torn up. What was so significant about Purim that this was the time that the Messiah came according to all of his followers?
ReplyDeleteEveryone was ready. "Four hundred families are waiting in Frankfurt, all ready for the journey, and many others of the same neighborhood have already left, " when the source of all their hope and happiness converts to Islam what do they do next? I think that there could be a few things one would do. One could be so desperate to believe that the messiah has finally come, that when Shabbtai Tzvi converted they thought it would be the right thing to do, to follow their messiah and convert also. One could also be so destroyed by the turn of events that they could stop believing in God altogether. What do you think you would have done? Would you be strong enough to go back living your life like none of this happened?
ReplyDelete"there is no end to the confirmations of that which is reported to have happened, and they all write that time is too scarce to describe all the miracles and signs that occur all the time". Although he claims that there were miracles and signs, he doesn't elaborate. What this Italian Jew is saying is to have some blind faith and simply believe that Shabbatai is the true Messiah. In the case of Christains, the 12 disciples claimed that Jesus performed miracles like walking on water and turning water into wine. In this case, there was no proof that any miracles were performed by Shabbatai. Why were people so willing to believe that he was the true Messiah without any confirmed proof? Why didn't people think about the rash decision they were making?
ReplyDeleteI feel like the author is trying to convince God; he expresses that there is so much chaos that he can't even begin to explain all of the crazy things that are happening. He says, "I never wished to write untruths; but as I behold that from all sides they confirm the miracle, I must tell you about it." Is this author doubting Gods knowledge of whats going on?
ReplyDeleteThe Italian Jew in this document announces "there is hope that our redemption may come sooner than we expected". Dated to 1666, one year after Nathan of Gaza heralded the coming of the Messiah in the following year, it is likely (though not certain) that the Italian Jew speaks of "The Redemption" in regards to Sabbatai Zevi among other "miracles and signs". Whether or not this is so, the evidence brought forth for this "Redemption" comes either from word of mouth ("that which is reported to have happended" or writing. The author of this document, however, does not bear forth any personal "confirmations". Is it possible that the author acted rashly in encouraging Jews to settle affairs on merely the "hope" that redemption was coming early, or were "the confirmations" he speaks of truly convincing for his time period? In other words, is it possible that only from a modern perspective, where we have much greater access to visual confirmations and constantly speak of the uncertainty of "hearsay" (especially in law) and such, that we are more doubtful (though there are exceptions) of matters which have spread via word of mouth? Or, did the series of circumstances surrounding the emergence of Messianism,create a population of Jews (like the Italian and the 400 people from Frankfurt) who were overtly searching for some form of Redemption? Is is possible that it is a mixture of both?
ReplyDeleteAs in Glückel of Hameln’s story, narration is an essential part of this document. It seems that we can infer that this man is knowledgeable enough to develop thoughts and articulate them in a clean and concise way. Additionally, he must be somewhat important if he is the first in the community to hear this news, but apart from these two tidbits there is little discernable information about the narrator in the text.
ReplyDeleteThe first sentence states that the narrator can “announce to you”, you being the one “that announce[s] to the whole holy congregation”. This seems to imply that the document was intended for a rabbi or priest that has a following. If this was intended for the aforementioned person, why does the narrator then give spiritual advice for getting a “share in this blessedness? Who is he to say that “this is not a time for vanities but for the study of law and good works”? Shouldn’t the spiritual guidance of the community be reserved for the spiritual leader(s) of the community?
It’s clear that this text was not written with the intent of being a historical document, rather some sort of memo, but who the narrator is, and what role he holds in the community seems to be of vital importance.
In his prayer the Italian explains that he wasn’t given details of this event because “time is too scarce to describe all the miracles and signs that occur all the time.” He then uses words “hint” and “hope” which are both related to uncertainty. A few sentences later he says “I never wished to write untruths; but as I behold that from all sides they confirm the miracle, I must tell you about it.” The Italian never says that words “I believe” or “I know” and I think he is very unsure of what to do, which is why he is praying to God. He never once explains that he is going to pack up and leave, he is just reporting what he is seeing. What he does believe is that it is not “time for vanities but for the study of law and good works...Everyone must seek the welfare of his fellow man…but the most important thing is to restore all dishonest gain.” My question is, is this man talking about how excited he is to be witnessing the Messiah or is he unsure of what to believe and just looking at the good side of it, which is that the people have a reason to be better?
ReplyDeleteCould this man be a good representation of all the others who followed the beliefs of Shabti Tzvi? How extreme could someone get in their beliefs? This man is very happy; so joyed that he wanted all of society to stop, so people would focus primarily on "study of law and good works". He also say, "Let this hint suffice that they should cease from all trade, since there is hope that our redemption may come sooner than we expected." He seems ready for the whole world to change in an instant.
ReplyDelete-RoseL
This man tells his readership of many miracles and great things that had happened along with "tidings that arrived yesterday." however, niether the miracles or the tidings tell of anything that shabtai tzvi had done himself. Rather, it was all about reactions to the new messiah's arrival by jews who follow his false messianic claim. This man is literate and is clearly a leader in his community from the fact that he wrote this letter clearly assuming members of his community would read it. Such a smart and successful man would bring proof from tzvi himself if he wanted his community to start selling properties and preparing for the return to israel. There is no such proof yet he still asks his people to sell and prepare. was this leader attempting to abuse the desire of his people to join this "revolution" in order to retain his role as leader instead of being taken down in a frenzy by his people who want to join shabbtai tzvi and his followers? After all his supports are vague claims, those of a follower caught in the frenzy of a new messiah. he, an educated leader would understand that there were no miracles (he never tells of any actual miracles) and would simply pass along the word of mouth in order to keep his stature when the community moves to join the movement.
ReplyDeleteTani
Clearly he was a promoter of Sabbatai Zevi and encouraged the audience or readers of the letter to stop everything they were doing and get up and move to Israel. How was this letter conveyed to the population? Was it widely distributed? How did it spread among Italian Jewry? Was he successful? Was he motivated by religious fervor or economic or political gain?
ReplyDeleteAnd most importantly, at the point at which it was demonstrated that Sabbatai Zevi was a false messiah, what was the reaction by the target audience to the author? Hostile? Antipathy? Cut off from communication and did he lose respect? Did the author follow Sabbatai Zevi in conversion?
--Jon Levi
There are clear incongruities between fact and what this Italian heard by word of mouth, such as "and they all write that time is too scarce to describe all the miracles and signs that occur all the time". Interestingly he clearly shows a desire to be skeptical, but by the end admits to having accepted Shabbatai Zvi. This is odd but not implausible; they're had to be more trust in information heard in the contemporaneous time, seeing as that was the only method of coveying it available (I include letters also in this category). However the most incredible part of this whole ordeal, is the Italian's account of the sacrifice and spiritual growth of a huge number of the populous caused by the eccentric Tzvi. There are easily discernible reasons why logical and intelligent people would grab onto Tzvi as a source of hope; primarily among them escapism from the huge pogroms taking place. The question arises, though seeing as the italian is most likely a community leader of some sort(and therefore has probably a relatively good pool of knowledge to work from), how is it possible he heard no news of the possible falseness of Tzvi's words, and eccentricity of Tzvi himself? There were rabbis disclaiming Tzvi's statement, admittedly the Italian could have disagreed with them, but it appears he has not heard any word of this sort; how is that possible? - Joey Rubinstein
ReplyDeleteRabbis questioned the reality of tzvis messianic pretensions and put tzvi and his followers in cherem. how could the people of this place go against their rabbinic leaders and follow a man banned from the community by the rabbis? have we not heard of false prophets? since the messiah is supposed to be one of the most important events for us as hews, should we not have looked with a more skeptical eye at tzvi?
ReplyDelete-david reiz
This document really shows the readers how happy and excited the people were about Shabti Tzvi and how they really believed in him. We can also see social pressure that people might have had. At the end of the document it says "Everyone must seek the welfare of his fellow man if he want to share in this blessedness. Nobody here enters any claims against anyone, but the most important thing is to restore all dishonest gain" This can show us the environment that it was like during that time and the pressure to blend in with what everyone believed in. It seems like the writer is saying you have to believe in him or you will miss out. Is it possible that many people believed in Shabti Tzvi because everyone else around them did.
ReplyDeletethis is more of a statement than a question and im sorry that it is late but i hope it sufffices
ReplyDeletethis man is probably not a direct follower of shabbatai zevi but a man who has never met him as he says "news has just a arrived" not i have witnessed or even i have heard. yet though he is still caught up in the movement which represents a recurring pattern in for lack of a better word the collective jewish psyche it represents how the years upon years of persecution have whittled down our resolve reasoning to grasping at some of the most insane strands (green strands in this case) of freedom to escape the the horrors of their real lives in a way its just a form of escapism they were caught up in an impossible dream and this man who was clearly an educated man probably knew in the back of his head that it was impossible but the draw of escape from persecution was too great it is a great testament judaisms refusal to die quietly that after so many people gave up everything for the idea of meshiach that when that said "meshiach" converted to islam that we didn't all convert to islam like so many followed jesus away from judaism. another thing to mention here is the short term affects of shabbatai zevi, while in the long term he was obviously terrible in the short term instead of people getting smashed out wasted and going crazy in the streets in celebration or cutting at each others throats to try to get a boat to isreal it seems here that people were inspired to mend bad relationships and do good for their fellow man as it says "everyone must seek the welfare of his fellow man to share in the blessedness.
this is just my interpretation of the excerpt i hope it suffices sorry about the lateness.
--klein--
If it is recorded, to whom is this Italian Jew speaking?
ReplyDelete