Welcome to the Home Work page for JHist '11. Every Monday and Tuesday (or sometimes Wednesday) I'll post some artifact and look for your great questions.
Monday, October 11, 2010
hw 10/11
A Bobover Wedding Celebration, 2009. This homework is due by 11:59pm on Monday, October 11th.
Throughout the video, the videographer focuses on and then follows, for a moment or two, the one person not wearing a jacket over his shirt, but why is he without a jacket, could he be an outsider who does not know the customs, or is he just a rebel who is "Shvitzing" a bit and cares less about conforming then the rest of the crowd. Ami Charnoff
In the video there are a swarm of black garbed, strietmald wearing hassidim celebrating a wedding. They're dancing very much alike with the exception of the chassan. They're not singing lyrics, it's basically the same repeating nigun. since most are dressed alike and dance alike, is the photographer hiding differentiation from the crowd or is there no opportunity to differentiate different people within the wedding?
In the video, with a few exceptions (including the photographers, the person with the white shirt, and the Grand Rabbi),most everyone is wearing similar garb (though not exactly alike-some of the hats are different) and is a male adult (complete with long peyot and beards). From the video, it appears as if only Bobover Hasidism attended the wedding. What can explain this lack of diversity? Can it be accredited solely to a long-lasting divide between different Jewish sects? Obviously, when it was first founded, Hasidism was not readily embraced by other forms of Judaism. Is this simply a continuation of tension between the different groups, originating from the 1700s- or are there other explanations (or, perhaps is the wedding attendance actually diverse- and my eyes can't discern between the various sects)? Is it possible that this is partly a reflection of Bobover's insularity, or maybe is the lack of diversity specific to this wedding (or this specific point in the wedding)?
Everybody seems to be absorbed in the dancing, reveling at the opportunity to embrace the matrimony through dance and happiness. Yet looking at the ‘chief rabbi’ (the one in a different color coat, with the minions behind him, at the head of the table) he seems to be conducting the crowd, (for info on how to be a great conductor- http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/itay_talgam_lead_like_the_great_conductors.html) yet no one is watching him. If he was dancing by himself, then fine, he’s enjoying the moment. But having him conduct a congregation that isn’t paying attention doesn’t make sense? Is the videographer, focusing on this particular event, foreshadowing a movement within the community? Are his followers moving away from his guidance as a spiritual leader, as seen by the community not following his movements, and moving towards a more self guided form of religion?
In the Bobover Hassidic sect, do they have a certain "theme" of order and formation, just as the Breslover sect has a "theme" of peace and happiness? What is the significance of the organized nature of their dancing? Also, there are no women to be seen - not even watching the men dance. What is the placement of the women in this scene?
As Ariel points out, there is little diversity in the crowd it seems to be 1000+ purely Bobover males. As the title of the video points out, this wedding takes place in the Bobover base of Brooklyn, New York. Who is the man getting married that credits this large a celebration of the Bobover community not in a Jewish state, but in Brooklyn, is he their Rebbe’s son? Is this boy the one that will end their conflict over the true identity of the Bobover Rebbe?
Judging by Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobov_(Hasidic_dynasty)) the two men competing for the position of Bobover Rebbe are much younger than the “conductor” sitting at the head table. This leads me to wonder who the man is. Why are the Rebbes not at the head of the table? Is the riff between them so strong, family competing in a Bet Din, that they will not grace the wedding of this seemingly very important groom? Is this old man at the head of the table because of a revolt against the competing Rebbes?
The Bobover sect has survived the Holocaust, where its leader and the vast majority of its followers were killed. If the Bobover faith is so strong that it can survive the Holocaust, and so consistent that the members are wearing the same clothes they were 80 years ago, why would is this riff breaking them apart? If these two Rabbis are such great men, why wouldn’t one of them back down and cede the position before the Bet Din proceedings entered its 5th year? As evident through the amount of spirit and people at this wedding, the Bobover faith is still going strong, but how long will it last before the silly dispute drives them apart? Joey Eleff
In the entire video I didn't see a single female. was it the decision of the videographer to leave the women out for issues of modesty or were there really no womer? there are so many people that this wedding that it must have been a wedding of someone important. this being the case could it really be that no women attended? by the way the head guy without the black garb was seated it was clear that there was no wife with him and if there was no wife with him, there were certainly no wives with the regular hassids. why such separation? everything in the wedding was clearly done through a set way of doing things: the matching clothes, the concentric circles of dance, the repetative music, the way people approached the head guy,and even the manner in which he rose with the music. so why leave the women out? if it is for modesty then surely there can be some mechitza or separation of sorts??
We know the terms "marriage" and "wedding" to describe the establishment of a relationship between a man and woman. In this video, and many others, the women are not shown. In one vide the bride appears to be standing in the middle of all the men with the chief rabbi swinging a white rope around that is being held by the bride on the other side; and once he is done she is left just standing there. Even when the bride does appear it seems to be that most of the attention still remains on the Rabbi. What is the mentality of the Hassidim regarding marriage and weddings? This celebration almost looks more like a bar-mitzva than a wedding. Do they not believe that a woman has a part in it too? Is the bride having a separate celebration that is not recorded or are the men the only ones to celebrate?
This does not look like a wedding celebration to me. Definitely a celebration, but not a wedding. At first I thought that maybe a new Torah was being given, or maybe dancing during davening. What I saw as the main focus of this video were two things. Number one, the circle of dancing men seemed to revolve around two other men dancing, which surprised me, if this is a wedding shouldn't the main focus be on the bride and groom? (who Tani pointed out we do not even see once). Second, was the obviously holy old man in the gold and black robes. Who is he that he is seated at the middle composition of the room? He seems to be the object all of the men who aren't dancing are in awe of. I say in awe of because even from this fuzzy video you can tell this man has the ability to inspire all of these men. If this is indeed a wedding celebration, then why are the main vocal points things that don't seem to have to do with a wedding at all? Why would the video taper tape these things instead of what a normal bystander would have taped? What do you think he was thinking?
From the angle in which the video was taken, we see a sea of Hassidics dancing for a joyous occasion. Do the Hassidics always celebrate in large numbers or is this celebration one of a greater magnitude? -Aaron Zuckerman
In this video we see many Chasidic Jews dancing around the Chasid who is getting married. He must be of great importance. The video turns to an elderly man who is older and it looks like he is giving other Chasidim Brachos. He is very respectable to them and stands up to shake thier hands. Why is this rabbi giving Brachos and serving as the main attention of the film and not the Chasid getting married? Why is he wearing a different article of clothing than the rest of the Chasidim in this video? Why does it look like people are lined up to shake the elderly Rabbis hand?
this is a celebration of a wedding, everyone there is dancing intensely (except for the old rabbi looking guys by that blue table), but the focus is more on the guests as a whole. there are no women showed at all in the video, so that can explain why there is no focus on the bride. however, with this large group of men, how come there is not a large focus on the groom? is the celebration more important than what is being celebrated?
-david reiz p.s. talk to me tomorrow about why it was late
Early on in this video, the camera zooms in on a child videographer, before moving to another scene. This is odd on two counts; first why would they have a child video the wedding instead of a trained adult (assuming there are no monetary issues; which, considering the massive throngs of guests, there isn't)? Also (this could possibly answer the first) why would a society so 'religiously' entrapped in the past incorporate any of the modern devices into one of the most holy events that takes place? - Joey Rubinstein
At the Bal's wedding there was a picture of a crown. There was also a lot of people in Shtreimel's except a person sitting down was wearing a silver color. Also at the wedding everyone was dancing in a line around two people. What did the picture of the crown represent and how come they had the wedding in that synagogue? Was the person sitting down in silver the same status as a Jewish priest? How come everyone except two people were dancing in a line instead of a circle? Was that a Chasidic custom? and the two people in the middle why was everyone dancing around them? were they important people or was it just a coincidence?
who's wedding is this is it the child or something of the patriarch of the movement because there is a rediculous amount of people there as well as a full orchestra. they cant possibly all be personal aquantances of the bride or groom i suspect that they are there to show there respect to the family, also is there some kind of hiarchy to the group because it seems that some people have the privlege to dance in the center while others have to watch from the bleachers, and most impoprtantly wheres the bride?
Does this music and dance date back to pre-war Europe? Was this originally a simple niggun embelished into a wonderful song (in my opinion) with accompanying music, or is it more modern? Would a bobover wedding look like this 100 years ago, with the same dancing routine and spectators, or would it have been different and perhaps smaller? How have bobover wedding customs changed in modern times?
Throughout the video, the videographer focuses on and then follows, for a moment or two, the one person not wearing a jacket over his shirt, but why is he without a jacket, could he be an outsider who does not know the customs, or is he just a rebel who is "Shvitzing" a bit and cares less about conforming then the rest of the crowd.
ReplyDeleteAmi Charnoff
In the video there are a swarm of black garbed, strietmald wearing hassidim celebrating a wedding. They're dancing very much alike with the exception of the chassan. They're not singing lyrics, it's basically the same repeating nigun. since most are dressed alike and dance alike, is the photographer hiding differentiation from the crowd or is there no opportunity to differentiate different people within the wedding?
ReplyDeleteIn the video, with a few exceptions (including the photographers, the person with the white shirt, and the Grand Rabbi),most everyone is wearing similar garb (though not exactly alike-some of the hats are different) and is a male adult (complete with long peyot and beards). From the video, it appears as if only Bobover Hasidism attended the wedding. What can explain this lack of diversity? Can it be accredited solely to a long-lasting divide between different Jewish sects? Obviously, when it was first founded, Hasidism was not readily embraced by other forms of Judaism. Is this simply a continuation of tension between the different groups, originating from the 1700s- or are there other explanations (or, perhaps is the wedding attendance actually diverse- and my eyes can't discern between the various sects)? Is it possible that this is partly a reflection of Bobover's insularity, or maybe is the lack of diversity specific to this wedding (or this specific point in the wedding)?
ReplyDeleteEverybody seems to be absorbed in the dancing, reveling at the opportunity to embrace the matrimony through dance and happiness. Yet looking at the ‘chief rabbi’ (the one in a different color coat, with the minions behind him, at the head of the table) he seems to be conducting the crowd, (for info on how to be a great conductor- http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/itay_talgam_lead_like_the_great_conductors.html) yet no one is watching him. If he was dancing by himself, then fine, he’s enjoying the moment. But having him conduct a congregation that isn’t paying attention doesn’t make sense? Is the videographer, focusing on this particular event, foreshadowing a movement within the community? Are his followers moving away from his guidance as a spiritual leader, as seen by the community not following his movements, and moving towards a more self guided form of religion?
ReplyDeleteIn the Bobover Hassidic sect, do they have a certain "theme" of order and formation, just as the Breslover sect has a "theme" of peace and happiness?
ReplyDeleteWhat is the significance of the organized nature of their dancing?
Also, there are no women to be seen - not even watching the men dance. What is the placement of the women in this scene?
-Rose
As Ariel points out, there is little diversity in the crowd it seems to be 1000+ purely Bobover males. As the title of the video points out, this wedding takes place in the Bobover base of Brooklyn, New York. Who is the man getting married that credits this large a celebration of the Bobover community not in a Jewish state, but in Brooklyn, is he their Rebbe’s son? Is this boy the one that will end their conflict over the true identity of the Bobover Rebbe?
ReplyDeleteJudging by Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobov_(Hasidic_dynasty)) the two men competing for the position of Bobover Rebbe are much younger than the “conductor” sitting at the head table. This leads me to wonder who the man is. Why are the Rebbes not at the head of the table? Is the riff between them so strong, family competing in a Bet Din, that they will not grace the wedding of this seemingly very important groom? Is this old man at the head of the table because of a revolt against the competing Rebbes?
The Bobover sect has survived the Holocaust, where its leader and the vast majority of its followers were killed. If the Bobover faith is so strong that it can survive the Holocaust, and so consistent that the members are wearing the same clothes they were 80 years ago, why would is this riff breaking them apart? If these two Rabbis are such great men, why wouldn’t one of them back down and cede the position before the Bet Din proceedings entered its 5th year? As evident through the amount of spirit and people at this wedding, the Bobover faith is still going strong, but how long will it last before the silly dispute drives them apart?
Joey Eleff
In the entire video I didn't see a single female. was it the decision of the videographer to leave the women out for issues of modesty or were there really no womer? there are so many people that this wedding that it must have been a wedding of someone important. this being the case could it really be that no women attended? by the way the head guy without the black garb was seated it was clear that there was no wife with him and if there was no wife with him, there were certainly no wives with the regular hassids. why such separation? everything in the wedding was clearly done through a set way of doing things: the matching clothes, the concentric circles of dance, the repetative music, the way people approached the head guy,and even the manner in which he rose with the music. so why leave the women out? if it is for modesty then surely there can be some mechitza or separation of sorts??
ReplyDeleteWe know the terms "marriage" and "wedding" to describe the establishment of a relationship between a man and woman. In this video, and many others, the women are not shown. In one vide the bride appears to be standing in the middle of all the men with the chief rabbi swinging a white rope around that is being held by the bride on the other side; and once he is done she is left just standing there. Even when the bride does appear it seems to be that most of the attention still remains on the Rabbi. What is the mentality of the Hassidim regarding marriage and weddings? This celebration almost looks more like a bar-mitzva than a wedding. Do they not believe that a woman has a part in it too? Is the bride having a separate celebration that is not recorded or are the men the only ones to celebrate?
ReplyDeleteThis does not look like a wedding celebration to me. Definitely a celebration, but not a wedding. At first I thought that maybe a new Torah was being given, or maybe dancing during davening. What I saw as the main focus of this video were two things. Number one, the circle of dancing men seemed to revolve around two other men dancing, which surprised me, if this is a wedding shouldn't the main focus be on the bride and groom? (who Tani pointed out we do not even see once). Second, was the obviously holy old man in the gold and black robes. Who is he that he is seated at the middle composition of the room? He seems to be the object all of the men who aren't dancing are in awe of. I say in awe of because even from this fuzzy video you can tell this man has the ability to inspire all of these men. If this is indeed a wedding celebration, then why are the main vocal points things that don't seem to have to do with a wedding at all? Why would the video taper tape these things instead of what a normal bystander would have taped? What do you think he was thinking?
ReplyDeleteFrom the angle in which the video was taken, we see a sea of Hassidics dancing for a joyous occasion. Do the Hassidics always celebrate in large numbers or is this celebration one of a greater magnitude?
ReplyDelete-Aaron Zuckerman
In this video we see many Chasidic Jews dancing around the Chasid who is getting married. He must be of great importance. The video turns to an elderly man who is older and it looks like he is giving other Chasidim Brachos. He is very respectable to them and stands up to shake thier hands. Why is this rabbi giving Brachos and serving as the main attention of the film and not the Chasid getting married? Why is he wearing a different article of clothing than the rest of the Chasidim in this video? Why does it look like people are lined up to shake the elderly Rabbis hand?
ReplyDeletethis is a celebration of a wedding, everyone there is dancing intensely (except for the old rabbi looking guys by that blue table), but the focus is more on the guests as a whole. there are no women showed at all in the video, so that can explain why there is no focus on the bride. however, with this large group of men, how come there is not a large focus on the groom? is the celebration more important than what is being celebrated?
ReplyDelete-david reiz
p.s. talk to me tomorrow about why it was late
Early on in this video, the camera zooms in on a child videographer, before moving to another scene. This is odd on two counts; first why would they have a child video the wedding instead of a trained adult (assuming there are no monetary issues; which, considering the massive throngs of guests, there isn't)? Also (this could possibly answer the first) why would a society so 'religiously' entrapped in the past incorporate any of the modern devices into one of the most holy events that takes place? - Joey Rubinstein
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAt the Bal's wedding there was a picture of a crown. There was also a lot of people in Shtreimel's except a person sitting down was wearing a silver color. Also at the wedding everyone was dancing in a line around two people. What did the picture of the crown represent and how come they had the wedding in that synagogue? Was the person sitting down in silver the same status as a Jewish priest? How come everyone except two people were dancing in a line instead of a circle? Was that a Chasidic custom? and the two people in the middle why was everyone dancing around them? were they important people or was it just a coincidence?
ReplyDelete1st of all thanks for sending me the link
ReplyDeletewho's wedding is this is it the child or something of the patriarch of the movement because there is a rediculous amount of people there as well as a full orchestra. they cant possibly all be personal aquantances of the bride or groom i suspect that they are there to show there respect to the family, also is there some kind of hiarchy to the group because it seems that some people have the privlege to dance in the center while others have to watch from the bleachers, and most impoprtantly wheres the bride?
Does this music and dance date back to pre-war Europe? Was this originally a simple niggun embelished into a wonderful song (in my opinion) with accompanying music, or is it more modern? Would a bobover wedding look like this 100 years ago, with the same dancing routine and spectators, or would it have been different and perhaps smaller? How have bobover wedding customs changed in modern times?
ReplyDeleteNathan Denicoff (not his brother Avi)
Who is the guy wearing silver clothing arguing with someone else at 2:48?
ReplyDelete